Unless you change how elections work and how politics are funded a new party in the US will always be dead on arrival.
A Bernie - AOC party would face immense hurdles as they lack the infrastructure and the funds the Democratic party has in place. On top of that corporate and oligarchic interests would all make sure to put in enough funding to ensure they will fail.
I love the energy but you have to be realistic. Their best bet would probably be to reform the Democratic Party from the inside.
Not true. The system suppresses third parties. It doesn’t stop them. Parties fall in the US just like everywhere else. When was the last time you spoke to a US whig? Or a Jeffersonian Republican? The system in place when those parties fell was exactly the system we have now. It just takes a massive popular effort and a period of severe political turmoil where the country is heavily divided along party lines and a large portion of the country feels entirely disenfranchised (ideally about a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 split between the two parties and people fed up or greater). Happened at the revolution. Happened at the civil war. Happened at the great depression. Guess where we are now? Don’t let yourself fall for the lie that the party is eternal. We’re on the knive’s edge now. It’s time to push
Despite what the media wants us to think, both parties are wildly unpopular with their own voters and are primed for collapse. Literally all of the conditions historically needed for social revolution have been met
Don’t let yourself fall for the lie that the party is eternal.
Exactly. More people need to let go of the idea that the people cannot affect massive change like this. Of course change will never happen if you don’t believe it’s possible.
I think this is probably the only time a whole third party could spring up. The heavy handed approach of oligarchs has caused this.
Reforming the party is the same as making a third one because what you’re reforming is oligarch interests. Corpo Dems don’t want that. That’s calling for a party split
Perhaps if they piggybacked some sort of strike movement and/or cooperated with trade unions (plus focused only on a few seats initially)? That’s what the Labour party did in the UK.
There are people working on the infrastructure problem now. And if this year with everything going on doesn’t produce interest in the public interest in a third party, nothing ever will. Also, one is whether or not momentum can keep going and if anything would be ready in time by the next election. Two, even if they did win by magic, would the republicans or democrats even work with them once in office? I feel like both sides would sabotage things to make it look like third parties shouldn’t play.
Democrats have been shutting down AOC, no? I feel like reforming the Dems would be a very long road.
All splitting the left would accomplish is assuring Republicans never lose again. It’s the inevitable result of a First Past the Post voting system.
The more effective way of doing things is to primary all the corporate Dems and reform the Democratic Party from within. AOC did it in her district and there’s no reason it can’t work in others.
Replacing institutions externally isn’t nearly as easy as rebuilding them internally.
A new party in a country where a vast majority votes along traditional family lines is not going to gain any momentum in the time frame that the US needs to correct course.
They’re a lot better rebuilding dems internally and keeping the existing external branding.
It’s the internet so here’s my uneducated and uninformed opinion: a more progressive offshoot of the Democratic Party external to it only makes sense if the Dems win a few elections on the trot. Otherwise it’s just going to be the same as cutting one’s nose to spite their own face.
The reason we have arrived here is because no one wants to do the hard work of MAKING a functional society. We all do JUST BARELY ENOUGH for it all to not fall apart, do everything the easiest way possible, never mind the results being shit.
Obviously it would be easier to reorganize the Dems. But it would be poisoned from the beginning.
What Bernie and AOC are begging of you is not to make the right move, but just to make a move. Get off your ass and run for office, any office, school board, city council, county board, local transit authority, state assembly member, Congress, fucking anything. You don’t have to choose the right party, worry about that later, the right choice is to just get out there and start running on your platform. Though they do strongly imply that it would be very, very helpful to primary the centrist, corporate Dems.
I never said they do. I just don’t think this is the time to overhaul the whole system when the first priority should be to steady the ship.
You can’t fix things if you’re just struggling to stay afloat. Fixing things requires a certain level of stability.
“I just don’t think this is the time to overhaul the whole system”
how do you contend encouraging political stability overhauling the system?
"the first priority should be to steady the ship.
steadying the ship is literally what this protest is about, providing stability while the executive branch is trying to conquer and invalidate the judicial and legislative.branches.
“You can’t fix things if you’re just struggling to stay afloat.”
yes you can. That’s what SOS calls, bilge pumps, pontoons, tar, patches and welds are for, to fix problens on boats.
you’re advocating to give up and sink when you can repair things.
ridiculous.
“Fixing things requires a certain level of stability.”
the necessary level of stability is far below what you clearly misunderstand.
We have that stability, what we need is political, legal and judicial actions liked the ones happening every day now fighting against the executive branch.
The literal nationwide protests by tens of thousands of citizens, judges, politicians and lawyers
constitute that saving grace.
Liberals have had over eight years to steady the ship, and they’ve spent that time alienating marginalized people and progressives and going farther and farther right with afaik no real resistance to trump. They’ve spent those eight years proving that we can’t trust them at all to stop fascism or repair its damage. We should probably be pushing progressive democrats to start a new party with other more left people (though I’d fully expect republicans and the remaining democrats to team up and destroy their campaign so idk)
Just in that one comment alone you’ve mentioned the liberals, the marginalised, the progressives, the fascists, the republicans, and the democrats.
And that’s why I’m apprehensive that adding another noun in that list is going to make things better… the left needs to consolidate to a new centre for the left, not fracture into another direction that delays consolidation further.
New Party in the making?
Unless you change how elections work and how politics are funded a new party in the US will always be dead on arrival.
A Bernie - AOC party would face immense hurdles as they lack the infrastructure and the funds the Democratic party has in place. On top of that corporate and oligarchic interests would all make sure to put in enough funding to ensure they will fail.
I love the energy but you have to be realistic. Their best bet would probably be to reform the Democratic Party from the inside.
Not true. The system suppresses third parties. It doesn’t stop them. Parties fall in the US just like everywhere else. When was the last time you spoke to a US whig? Or a Jeffersonian Republican? The system in place when those parties fell was exactly the system we have now. It just takes a massive popular effort and a period of severe political turmoil where the country is heavily divided along party lines and a large portion of the country feels entirely disenfranchised (ideally about a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 split between the two parties and people fed up or greater). Happened at the revolution. Happened at the civil war. Happened at the great depression. Guess where we are now? Don’t let yourself fall for the lie that the party is eternal. We’re on the knive’s edge now. It’s time to push
Despite what the media wants us to think, both parties are wildly unpopular with their own voters and are primed for collapse. Literally all of the conditions historically needed for social revolution have been met
Exactly. More people need to let go of the idea that the people cannot affect massive change like this. Of course change will never happen if you don’t believe it’s possible.
It either happens in the mid-terms or never. If progressives win big, you have a chance of changing DNC leadership.
I think this is probably the only time a whole third party could spring up. The heavy handed approach of oligarchs has caused this.
Reforming the party is the same as making a third one because what you’re reforming is oligarch interests. Corpo Dems don’t want that. That’s calling for a party split
Perhaps if they piggybacked some sort of strike movement and/or cooperated with trade unions (plus focused only on a few seats initially)? That’s what the Labour party did in the UK.
There are people working on the infrastructure problem now. And if this year with everything going on doesn’t produce interest in the public interest in a third party, nothing ever will. Also, one is whether or not momentum can keep going and if anything would be ready in time by the next election. Two, even if they did win by magic, would the republicans or democrats even work with them once in office? I feel like both sides would sabotage things to make it look like third parties shouldn’t play.
Democrats have been shutting down AOC, no? I feel like reforming the Dems would be a very long road.
Many third parties would happily hand them their spot.
All splitting the left would accomplish is assuring Republicans never lose again. It’s the inevitable result of a First Past the Post voting system.
The more effective way of doing things is to primary all the corporate Dems and reform the Democratic Party from within. AOC did it in her district and there’s no reason it can’t work in others.
This is exactly the message. I’m certain that’s what AOC’s point was.
Dump first past the post voting! We need non-spoiler alternatives
Yeah that’s definitely what America needs. Another fracture.
Rather a replacement
Replacing institutions externally isn’t nearly as easy as rebuilding them internally. A new party in a country where a vast majority votes along traditional family lines is not going to gain any momentum in the time frame that the US needs to correct course. They’re a lot better rebuilding dems internally and keeping the existing external branding. It’s the internet so here’s my uneducated and uninformed opinion: a more progressive offshoot of the Democratic Party external to it only makes sense if the Dems win a few elections on the trot. Otherwise it’s just going to be the same as cutting one’s nose to spite their own face.
The reason we have arrived here is because no one wants to do the hard work of MAKING a functional society. We all do JUST BARELY ENOUGH for it all to not fall apart, do everything the easiest way possible, never mind the results being shit.
Obviously it would be easier to reorganize the Dems. But it would be poisoned from the beginning.
two parties do not constitute a political whole.
having only two parties in a democracy is a sign of weakness and sickness in the political system.
political parties representing people are not “fractures”.
Only two parties is a sign of a First Past the Post voting system and people that understand basic electoral strategy.
incorrect, “patriot”
What a stunning and well thought-out rebuttal.
i hoped you might just be able to follow that. you’re welcome.
What Bernie and AOC are begging of you is not to make the right move, but just to make a move. Get off your ass and run for office, any office, school board, city council, county board, local transit authority, state assembly member, Congress, fucking anything. You don’t have to choose the right party, worry about that later, the right choice is to just get out there and start running on your platform. Though they do strongly imply that it would be very, very helpful to primary the centrist, corporate Dems.
Kind of close!
“not to make the right move, but just to make a move.”
focus in on this part.
It’s a sign of corruption and rigging
political parties?
how?
Having only two parties cycling in power for a century is a sign of corruption and rigging
I never said they do. I just don’t think this is the time to overhaul the whole system when the first priority should be to steady the ship. You can’t fix things if you’re just struggling to stay afloat. Fixing things requires a certain level of stability.
So when is the time? The midterms? The presidential election?
Reforming the democrats in four easy steps:
Now’s not the time
Not this year
This is really a bad time, okay?
Definitely not this year, are you crazy?
“I just don’t think this is the time to overhaul the whole system”
how do you contend encouraging political stability overhauling the system?
"the first priority should be to steady the ship.
steadying the ship is literally what this protest is about, providing stability while the executive branch is trying to conquer and invalidate the judicial and legislative.branches.
“You can’t fix things if you’re just struggling to stay afloat.”
yes you can. That’s what SOS calls, bilge pumps, pontoons, tar, patches and welds are for, to fix problens on boats.
you’re advocating to give up and sink when you can repair things.
ridiculous.
“Fixing things requires a certain level of stability.”
the necessary level of stability is far below what you clearly misunderstand.
We have that stability, what we need is political, legal and judicial actions liked the ones happening every day now fighting against the executive branch.
The literal nationwide protests by tens of thousands of citizens, judges, politicians and lawyers constitute that saving grace.
Be me
Paramedic
Patient is very sick, circling the drain
Oh God oh fuck I can’t treat them and stabilize them, they’re unstable
haha, great example.
“Sadly, there’s nothing we can do. Our training, available equipment, medications and infrastructure are only for stable patients.”
Send it BLS next time.
Dude, that’s all they ever send.
Liberals have had over eight years to steady the ship, and they’ve spent that time alienating marginalized people and progressives and going farther and farther right with afaik no real resistance to trump. They’ve spent those eight years proving that we can’t trust them at all to stop fascism or repair its damage. We should probably be pushing progressive democrats to start a new party with other more left people (though I’d fully expect republicans and the remaining democrats to team up and destroy their campaign so idk)
Just in that one comment alone you’ve mentioned the liberals, the marginalised, the progressives, the fascists, the republicans, and the democrats. And that’s why I’m apprehensive that adding another noun in that list is going to make things better… the left needs to consolidate to a new centre for the left, not fracture into another direction that delays consolidation further.
Right? The two parties we have are doing such a fantastic job representing the people already, why break from the status quo now?
🙄