I have no doubt the EU won’t have much mercy for American corporations going* forward.
My phone REALLY wants me to type gong. Gong gong gong gong gong.
bro be like
We don’t need no friends, allies or influence when we can be bullying, a child’s concept of tough, looking up to other dictators like Putin and Erdogan. Im sure all it will take is loud threats of widespread tariffs and a stable Genius who’s “great” at deals.
“Coincidentally” Apple might make sizable
bribesindependent donations to support the free and open re-election of The fuhrerGo ahead, this is a safe space. Get it out of your system.
Gong gong, gonging gong gong!
Let me see that gong…gong gagong gong gong
When apple announced messaging would be cross platform nobody else adopted it. Any idea why?
Oh yeah one reason: Apple won’t be forced to open up iMessage by EU (2024)
In the eu literally nobody is using iMessage, so it doesn’t fall under dma laws.
Hopefully this actually leads to something lasting, but I don’t have high hopes considering how Europe is getting dragged atm
I mean the EU made them allow app stores but Apple made a complete mockery of them by requiring their rubber stamp and charging “only” 27% fee and the EU is just letting them get away with that so yeah, I have little faith.
There isn’t really any getting away with. If what Apple does is within the law then the EU can’t prevent it. I’m sure somebody is looking into preventing Apple from doing it, but propper legislation takes time.
There isn’t really any getting away with.
But they are. Right now.
propper legislation takes time
They should have thought of that when they created the legislation.
Maybe Nintendo, Sony and MS will be next?
I want a 3rd party store on all my consoles, why can’t I?
Not skilled enough hackerboy 😉🫶🏻
Mod your damn consoles!
Most every major company tries to build a walled garden. Apple does so via apps and services, services like netflix do by making sure you can’t watch shows on any other service (arr!), or even something as simple as cordless tools that have proprietary batteries and chargers where it gets really expensive to have to buy different batteries.
Most every major company isn’t entrenched in people’s lives as deeply as apple is though. If I want to leave Netflix it’s as easy as switching subscriptions. If I want to leave Apple I need months of migration and multiple product replacements.
Or at least that’s what it looks like to someone who has avoided Apple their whole life, it was apparent to me as a teen that the walled garden was a trap. The iPhone and iPhone 3g where the only and last peices of apple hardware I’ve ever owned.
You’re right on all counts. It is not cheap and easy to migrate away from apple, and some apps may not have an equivalent.
I’ve been anti-apple most of my life for multiple reasons, and I still am, however my work uses apple products for the employees so it just made sense to have my own as well. I deeply recognize the walled garden Apple has created, and the only products of theirs we use are those associated with the mobile devices. We buy nothing else apple; no laptops, no desktops, no backup, TV, etc.
And also getting using to an entirely new UI and OS
Finally. We all about to see better prices and more features. If this ends in lower app store fees, its a massive win for every app company in the world!
I was so hyped when the EU pressured Apple into allowing external software on Apple devices.
Apple killed that hype making the change EU only, problem is I’m encapsulated in the walled garden with an iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Air Tags, HomePods.
Thinking of getting a second phone Android based to partially-escape the garden but if I ditch my iPhone all hell will break loose network wise.
ditch the homepod and don’t replace it with any other spyware, and replace the rest as needed.
ditch the homepod and don’t replace it with any other spyware
Family has gotten use to the HomePod being around, makes simple things like settings timers for cooking or other related task a bit easier.
And yeah, I’m aware it’s spyware. I wanted a “smart-home” and essentially landed on Apple products.
I was you up until 3 months ago. I went nuclear and focused on the more open source side of android and have been so much happier for it. Sold everything to afford the changes.
It’s also cheaper consider the availability of different Android phones, I left pixel for OnePlus recently, because it decided then screen died after a small drop for pixel 5a, a phone with well known defects
With android you can change the os if your into it, developer at least.
Yeah I was looking into Linux based mobile OS’s and I’ve come to the consensus that hardware selection is very limited.
I was very interested in GrapheneOS but unfortunately it’s for Pixel phones only.
dint notice that, i though OP12r could do it too.
Some phones only. Or at least that is how it used to be when I had one not too long ago. The boot loader had the be unlocked and some apps like banks or Google pay refused to work at the time (or maybe it was if you had root enabled).
Well, they did get them to switch to USB-C, so I’m not holding my breath, but I do hope that this will lead to more interoperability. I’m tired of Apple making Android/non-Apple users feel like second-class citizens.
I have to agree. Switching to USB-C is a big step, but I doubt Apple will become more interoperable unless they are forced to.
I still don’t think that one was actually the EU’s doing. Macs got USB C before most PCs, iPads had it for a long time before iPhones, and iPhones switched over 10 years after Apple announced lightning saying it would be their connector “for the next decade”
Apple got an special exemption the last time the EU standardised the port to Micro-USB.
The writing would have been on the wall for them. Especially as thunderbolt 3+ uses the USB-C connector, there was no guarantee the EU would give them exception again, and lightning is almost certainly not designed to handle the wattage needed to charge a Mac.
But otherwise, if not compelled, I doubt that Apple would have carried it over to the mobile devices. The timing is fortuitous, but likely because Apple has a little leeway before the EU forbade their devices/fined them for not following the law.
Even then, for whatever reason, a (grantedly cheap) 3,5mm->USB-C adapter my dad bought didn’t work at all on his iPhone while it works just fine on my Android
Huge win!
I honestly don’t get it. It’s their product. Why are entire countries getting involved in how they design and distribute their own IP?
It is in the public interest to regulate companies. This is the best tool we have to promote a healthy market with fair competition, and to ensure companies make safe products that aligns with the public interest.
Perhaps instead of watering down one company, maybe all the others should be inspired to make better quality products that can compete with them.
Because- and this is only my opinion, allowing governments to control how a company manages their IP is a slippery slope to go down.
But what if a company is too powerful and has an unfair advantage in the market?
For example: Say a company is able to make excellent ear buds – the best in the market. Apple obviously doesn’t want to loose out on AirPods profit, so they then decide to deliberately make it a poor user experience to use other ear buds on Macs and Iphones. Now it is impossible for better ear buds to compete with AirPods because Apple abuses an unfair market advantage. Furthermore, this heavily decentivices other companies from even entering the market.
I see your point about the dangers of allowing governments to overregulate companies, but it is also dangerous to let companies freely do whatever they want. Share holders will happily screw over consumers and society for a tiny increase in profit.
In my opinion, right now there exists too many unhealthy markets – especially in technology – and I would like to see more regulations akin to what EU is doing. US is dropping the ball hard on this one.
I get what you’re saying, and while I don’t have a better solution to offer- I just know that the solution they’re offering now is a bad idea. It’s opening the doors to govt/nation controlled IP.
And that is bad for everyone.
deleted by creator
There should be a porn movie with that headline
Not the biggest fan of this tbh. People who want open standards should just not buy iOS devices. It’s not that hard.
Companies that do anti-consumer practices shouldn’t think it’s the norm. The more we fuck Apple, the less other companies think that it’s OK to fuck consumers.
Companies that do anti-consumer practices shouldn’t think it’s the norm
Yes, and they would know if people would start voting with their wallets.
Voting with the wallet is mostly bullshit, it’s a myth corpos are telling people so we regulate them less. They have so much power to inject themselves into human’s lives, make themselves part of your existence. You can for example try to walletvote Microsoft out of your life whatever the fuck you want, while you were trying it, they bought a politician or twelve, and now they’re part of your government, your education system, your military, and your finance sector.
While democracy still exists, the only way to fight corpos is the governmental power or regulations.Exactly this! Capitalism without regulation leads to dictatorship of few cooperations that have the power to let you starve, if you not comply.
How do people not see that?!
Voting with the wallet is mostly bullshit
Disagree completely. It’s the most effective tool we have to control corpos that does not rely on another entity.
they bought a politician or twelve … the only way to fight corpos is the governmental power or regulations
So, you yourself say they buy politicians, but in the same sentence, you want the people they are buying to fight their power with regulations?
Do you see where you went wrong here?
How do you leave when your friends, family and coworkers are all on iMessage and refuse to use anything cross platform? This literally affects people’s professional relationships and close personal connections.
No my friend, Apple has perfected lock-in and turned it into an art. Just because it doesn’t affect you doesn’t mean it’s not an issue.
You can see how much of an impact this has - in my (rich European) country only 30% use apple devices and everyone uses WhatsApp for communication (also not good but far better than imessage, and there’s a slow shift towards signal happening)
How do you leave when your friends, family and coworkers are all on iMessage and refuse to use anything cross platform
“Hey, since I don’t want to use apple devices anymore because the company sucks, I’ve decided to ditch it, therefore, I will not longer have access to iMessage. If you need to contact me, you can use XYZ (insert alternative here) or just call me/send a SMS.”
That’s what I did when ditching whatsapp. Is it easy? No, ofc not. Ditching something for moral reasons is never easy. Do you think it was easy for me to ditch microsoft for linux when I started out? Hell no. But it gets other people to think about it. Some will laugh about it and say: “haha my funny nephew who wants to save the world himself (insert laugh emoji here)” while other will be genuinely interested in why you made this decision and might follow it. That’s how you get people to think by the way.
Pretending like you need a specific messenger like iMessage for communication is dishonest at best and straightup stupid and manipulative at worst.
“Hey, since I don’t want to use apple devices anymore because the company sucks, I’ve decided to ditch it, therefore, I will not longer have access to iMessage. If you need to contact me, you can use XYZ (insert alternative here) or just call me/send a SMS.”
that only works when a majority of them relies on you. That’s rarely the situation in reality
Pretending like you need a specific messenger like iMessage for communication is dishonest at best and straightup stupid and manipulative at worst.
thinking like this is ignorant at best and intentionally manipulative at worst
That’s the whole point, when you do useless shit like buying from one corpo instead of another, they only need to buy couple of politicians to succeed. The only way for you to combat it is to elect politicians they can’t buy and apply political pressure to the rest of them, so they can’t buy them all. If instead of that you play their game and try to outbuy a corpo that owns half of your country already, not only you will lose every time, you are actually what doing exactly they want you to do.
“No ethical consumption under capitalism” is about this, not anything else.
This is such a lazy argument, it doesn’t add any kind of value and it shows you don’t care about how other people are treated. Please stop doing this.
you don’t care about how other people are treated
True, I do not care about how apple users are treated. They have - voluntarily - decided to buy a device that is known to be anti-consumer.
If we talk about restricting stuff like rent, food prices etc, so essentials, I’m on board. But Apple? Nah. Nobody forces you to shell out that much money for a smartphone.
They have - voluntarily - decided to buy a device that is known to be anti-consumer.
Many Apple users bought their devices before they were aware of Apple’s user look in tactics, let alone how they could be problematic. Most people are not into tech, so they wouldn’t know. Data on tech illiteracy.
I knew about Apple’s tactics and still went all in.
For me at the time it was a choice between sticking with Android (my first smartphone was the OG Moto Droid), trying to de-Google the Android phone I had at the time, or switching to Apple.
Android hardware may be better now than it ever has been, but that wasn’t always the case. Samsung especially pissed me off when they had an Android phone out that after an update to Android the phone would randomly go into Airplane mode without indicating it. They refused to release a fix. That was the last straw for me after trying to use a ton of different ROMS on the phone to get around the issue. Also, back then if you didn’t have Google Play installed that meant you missed out on a lot of apps or had to use Amazon’s App Store.
I got fed up with having to constantly fix things after ROM updates and didn’t have the time due to working so many hours at my job. I didn’t want to stick with Google because I saw where it was headed. I switched to Apple and never looked back. Part of that switch was also influenced because I wanted to get out of the Microsoft Windows ecosystem and gaming on Linux wasn’t great back then so I had to dual boot. Gaming on Mac’s weren’t that great either, but at least I had the “feeling” that things were more private with Apple than Google and MS.
I’m so tied into the Apple ecosystem right now that I’m just not sure I want to go back to hacking Android phones and al that even if things are 100% better than they were a decade ago. I “trust” that Apple handles my privacy concerns better than an ad-supported Google and Windows. I’m going to recommend Apple to non tech-savvy friends and family 100% of the time. Until there’s a phone OS competitor that is both easy to use and on decent hardware out of the box, it’s just a hassle.
That said, I’m thinking about looking at picking up a cheap pre-paid Android phone and checking out the ROM scene again because of the happenings in the US the last few months. I don’t know if I can trust Apple to not cave to the government and destroy the only good thing it had going for the ecosystem for me.
The problem is they have critical mass so developers are forced to target iPhone. Its a natural monopoly.
The US won’t care as well since they benefit.
Dunno about that critical mass, iOS only has 1/3 of the market in europe while android has the remaining 2/3.
You say that until Google realises that there is no other viable alternative and so they can do the same thing since it’s not like there is another option.
I know you ca try and install other OSes, but that isn’t an option for many, as many manufacturers make acquiring root access impossible.
You answer is basically a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who bought an iphone before they knew about the things Apple did to keep users looked in. Same goes for the acquiring root access on an android phone.
People are not born with knowledge.
You say that until Google realises that there is no other viable alternative and so they can do the same thing since it’s not like there is another option.
Not entirely. I’m fairly sure that, if google decides to lock down pixel devices, the graphene team would evaluate other devices that are more open. The reason they recommend pixels is because they are open, not because they are big google fans. Graphene DOES run on other devices aswell, it’s just not officially tested or supported. And there are other devices with unlockable bootloaders, most noteably older oneplus devices and fairphones.
You answer is basically a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who bought an iphone before they knew about the things Apple did to keep users looked in
No, my answer is a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who voluntarily decides to stick with apple devices despite knowing of their practices. Let’s be honest for just one second: Barely any consumer is so tied into an operating system that it would prevent them from switching. What do most people do with their phones? Listen to music, have a messenger, maybe check emails, browsing - that’s it. And you can do that on any other phone. The amount of people that are apple power users that use applications that only exist in the apple ecosystem is abysmal and largely irrelevant in this discussion.
Same goes for the acquiring root access on an android phone. People are not born with knowledge.
True. Neither was I. But in 2025, we have the internet and you can read up on almost anything imagineable. If I wanted to learn about astrophysics, I could find plenty of videos or resources about it. If I want to learn about japanese history during the sengoku period, there are a lot of resources about that. And if I want to learn how to unlock the bootloader of a phone and install a custom rom, not surprisingly, there are resources for that.
This “People are not born with knowledge” argument is so stupid - nobody is born with it, the problem is just that most people are too lazy to learn about their possibilites to break free from oppressing corporate conglomerates. And THAT’S something I have an issue with.
Graphene works on the OnePlus, I’m not a developer so I haven’t tried anything in changing the Os. And pixels problem is with the obsession with Gemini AI and the exonys chip they are using that drains the battery
It’s not officially tested anymore tho - they’ve recently updated their supported devices section. Stuff like the fairphone, which was supported once, also are no longer in the list.
I completely agree with you. So many phones are business tools. Forcing your employer to use the App Store is good. Side loading fly by night bullshit is a risk and lack of oversight the world just doesn’t need. If you want that stuff get an android.
This is very bad. Their walled garden is perfect for the young, elderly, and stupid.
Hopefully some competitor arrives to replace them.
If but perfect you mean perfectly exploitative, sure. The walled garden issue has nothing to do with ease of use my friend; in fact, the whole point is to do the opposite - make anything outside the wall impossibly hard to access or use.
Yeah because using Android is so difficult
Apple is free to sell phones where walled gardens are allowed. You’re also free to stay in the walled garden, Apple lied to you.
No one is forcing you do use apps outside of the app store. It’s about choice.
If such a competitor emerged they’d not be able to trade in the EU, given the size of the EU economy that ain’t happening.
It is not the walled garden that makes it easy, I mean, only because you open up doesn’t mean that your costumer still can buy only apple and it just works…
You’re right, they are like a bike with training wheels, helmet, and pads.
I thought that “walled-garden” was for security and privacy in the case of Apple? I always relied on them for that.
Nope, it was so they could take the 30% cut of every penny that is spent on one of their platforms, and also so that it would be extremely inconvenient to leave their ecosystem since doing so would mean leaving behind most of your data.
It’s both of those things. Just like Sony, Xbox, Nintendo, Steam, etc. They take 30% in exchange for exposure, security, and a reliable platform. It’s a trade off. Worth it to some, not to others.
You can certainly argue that more control makes iPhones safer, since its harder to get malicious software on the phone. But Apple is also abusing their control for their own gain.
You could also argue that locking you in a room would be safer than letting you walk freely out in the world. But I don’t we want that either.
I dunno, are meals provided in the locked room? The world is a pretty fucking awful place right now.
Yes but only oatmeal (no toppings).
Oh goddamnit
The security approach was what first drew me to Apple back in like 2005. The whole focus on proprietary software that resulted in practically zero malware was definitely worth me having to do file-type conversions on documents and all that crap to keep up with people on Windows. And I loved it. And I kept adding every device and loving how seamless they all interact with each other.
But then there’s that shadow side you refer to. The gradual dumbing down of software, the constant hand-holding. The walled garden began to feel like a lock-in.
My last new Mac purchase was in 2011. I still use that machine. But I was not getting security updates and other things I use were leaving me behind so I decided to give Linux a try. Chose Ubuntu and the hardware was suddenly like new again. Apple makes beautiful machines but waste them on some increasingly basic software. My Linux-run Macs have made me fall in love with computers all over again.
If this somehow results in me being able to run like Graphene on my iPhone in a few years, or even connect my Apple Watch to a non-Apple phone, I will be pretty excited.
Well, but it is just as hard to find exploits for white heads, and this leads to open exploits that last for ages, even if actively used by black heads.
There is no security by obfuscation
If people want a phone that acts like an android, just buy an android.
Why are people trying to make iPhones into androids?
Its primary utility is shoring up their image as the brand where ‘everything just works’ and op/interop is a thoughtless zero friction process. Compromise that and you lose normie, bigtime. So everyone gets locked in…and you get the walled prison basketball court
You’re getting downvoted but how much would you like to bet that once the walled garden is down/third party apps can be installed; we’ll suddenly see “security related apps” installed by some EU law.
If I sound paranoid there’s already an app on Android that scans the content of your photo library (iPhones have this too but it’s only enabled during parental controls, Androids is stealth-enabled 24/7).
It’s called something android core, you can uninstall it, but it may comeback each update.
Honestly, fuck security. I want every app on my phone to phone home to other malicious app stores with all my personal data. I want them to install backdoor VPNs that tunnel all my data to a man in the middle. I want them to allow me to jailbreak my phone so I can install permanent rootkits, that way adversaries can reload their botnets even after I factory reset my phone.
On the real, i appreciate Apple for what they’ve done so far. If this happens, ill have to move back to GrapheneOS. Which is fine, but its just so much more time that I have to spend on making the phone work versus working on the phone.
We should force the entire EU to mandate GrapheneOS on all phones. Well see how much they enjoy the experience.
As a tinkerer, stuff like Linux and Graphene are right up my alley. But as a dude with a job and family I just don’t have the time anymore. Apple is far from perfect but their security/privacy efforts are the lesser of the evils for almost no extra time/thinking required from me so they’re the ideal option for now. Really hope all these laws don’t muck that up.
Should you stay with using the Apple app store. It absolutely nothing bad about this decision it gives people the option to use an alternate app store if they want but it doesn’t force anyone to.
The amount of bad faith arguments in this thread are disturbing for supposedly informed tech savvy people.
it gives people the option to use an alternate app store if they want but it doesn’t force anyone to.
That argument sounds great in theory, but would break down after a month or less, when companies start moving their apps off of Apple’s App Store and onto a 3rd party store that allows all the spyware Apple has forced them to remove if they want to have an iOS market. This move DOES force people to use alternate app stores when companies start moving (not copying, moving) their apps over to said stores to take advantage of the drop in oversight.
As a new user of GrapheneOS, I have yet to see the difference with regular Android except that it’s way more secure.
GrapheneOS is how Android should be, but its a solitary experience versus iOS, which harnesses the interplay with other apple devices.
Would grapheneOS work well on a Boox Tab Ultra C?
Graphene doesn’t support any of my banking or MFA apps, at least last time I tried it.
