Companies that do anti-consumer practices shouldn’t think it’s the norm. The more we fuck Apple, the less other companies think that it’s OK to fuck consumers.
Voting with the wallet is mostly bullshit, it’s a myth corpos are telling people so we regulate them less. They have so much power to inject themselves into human’s lives, make themselves part of your existence. You can for example try to walletvote Microsoft out of your life whatever the fuck you want, while you were trying it, they bought a politician or twelve, and now they’re part of your government, your education system, your military, and your finance sector.
While democracy still exists, the only way to fight corpos is the governmental power or regulations.
How do you leave when your friends, family and coworkers are all on iMessage and refuse to use anything cross platform? This literally affects people’s professional relationships and close personal connections.
No my friend, Apple has perfected lock-in and turned it into an art. Just because it doesn’t affect you doesn’t mean it’s not an issue.
You can see how much of an impact this has - in my (rich European) country only 30% use apple devices and everyone uses WhatsApp for communication (also not good but far better than imessage, and there’s a slow shift towards signal happening)
How do you leave when your friends, family and coworkers are all on iMessage and refuse to use anything cross platform
“Hey, since I don’t want to use apple devices anymore because the company sucks, I’ve decided to ditch it, therefore, I will not longer have access to iMessage. If you need to contact me, you can use XYZ (insert alternative here) or just call me/send a SMS.”
That’s what I did when ditching whatsapp. Is it easy? No, ofc not. Ditching something for moral reasons is never easy. Do you think it was easy for me to ditch microsoft for linux when I started out? Hell no. But it gets other people to think about it. Some will laugh about it and say: “haha my funny nephew who wants to save the world himself (insert laugh emoji here)” while other will be genuinely interested in why you made this decision and might follow it. That’s how you get people to think by the way.
Pretending like you need a specific messenger like iMessage for communication is dishonest at best and straightup stupid and manipulative at worst.
“Hey, since I don’t want to use apple devices anymore because the company sucks, I’ve decided to ditch it, therefore, I will not longer have access to iMessage. If you need to contact me, you can use XYZ (insert alternative here) or just call me/send a SMS.”
that only works when a majority of them relies on you. That’s rarely the situation in reality
Pretending like you need a specific messenger like iMessage for communication is dishonest at best and straightup stupid and manipulative at worst.
thinking like this is ignorant at best and intentionally manipulative at worst
That’s the whole point, when you do useless shit like buying from one corpo instead of another, they only need to buy couple of politicians to succeed. The only way for you to combat it is to elect politicians they can’t buy and apply political pressure to the rest of them, so they can’t buy them all. If instead of that you play their game and try to outbuy a corpo that owns half of your country already, not only you will lose every time, you are actually what doing exactly they want you to do.
“No ethical consumption under capitalism” is about this, not anything else.
True, I do not care about how apple users are treated. They have - voluntarily - decided to buy a device that is known to be anti-consumer.
If we talk about restricting stuff like rent, food prices etc, so essentials, I’m on board. But Apple? Nah. Nobody forces you to shell out that much money for a smartphone.
They have - voluntarily - decided to buy a device that is known to be anti-consumer.
Many Apple users bought their devices before they were aware of Apple’s user look in tactics, let alone how they could be problematic. Most people are not into tech, so they wouldn’t know. Data on tech illiteracy.
I knew about Apple’s tactics and still went all in.
For me at the time it was a choice between sticking with Android (my first smartphone was the OG Moto Droid), trying to de-Google the Android phone I had at the time, or switching to Apple.
Android hardware may be better now than it ever has been, but that wasn’t always the case. Samsung especially pissed me off when they had an Android phone out that after an update to Android the phone would randomly go into Airplane mode without indicating it. They refused to release a fix. That was the last straw for me after trying to use a ton of different ROMS on the phone to get around the issue. Also, back then if you didn’t have Google Play installed that meant you missed out on a lot of apps or had to use Amazon’s App Store.
I got fed up with having to constantly fix things after ROM updates and didn’t have the time due to working so many hours at my job. I didn’t want to stick with Google because I saw where it was headed. I switched to Apple and never looked back. Part of that switch was also influenced because I wanted to get out of the Microsoft Windows ecosystem and gaming on Linux wasn’t great back then so I had to dual boot. Gaming on Mac’s weren’t that great either, but at least I had the “feeling” that things were more private with Apple than Google and MS.
I’m so tied into the Apple ecosystem right now that I’m just not sure I want to go back to hacking Android phones and al that even if things are 100% better than they were a decade ago. I “trust” that Apple handles my privacy concerns better than an ad-supported Google and Windows. I’m going to recommend Apple to non tech-savvy friends and family 100% of the time. Until there’s a phone OS competitor that is both easy to use and on decent hardware out of the box, it’s just a hassle.
That said, I’m thinking about looking at picking up a cheap pre-paid Android phone and checking out the ROM scene again because of the happenings in the US the last few months. I don’t know if I can trust Apple to not cave to the government and destroy the only good thing it had going for the ecosystem for me.
You say that until Google realises that there is no other viable alternative and so they can do the same thing since it’s not like there is another option.
I know you ca try and install other OSes, but that isn’t an option for many, as many manufacturers make acquiring root access impossible.
You answer is basically a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who bought an iphone before they knew about the things Apple did to keep users looked in. Same goes for the acquiring root access on an android phone.
You say that until Google realises that there is no other viable alternative and so they can do the same thing since it’s not like there is another option.
Not entirely. I’m fairly sure that, if google decides to lock down pixel devices, the graphene team would evaluate other devices that are more open. The reason they recommend pixels is because they are open, not because they are big google fans. Graphene DOES run on other devices aswell, it’s just not officially tested or supported. And there are other devices with unlockable bootloaders, most noteably older oneplus devices and fairphones.
You answer is basically a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who bought an iphone before they knew about the things Apple did to keep users looked in
No, my answer is a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who voluntarily decides to stick with apple devices despite knowing of their practices. Let’s be honest for just one second: Barely any consumer is so tied into an operating system that it would prevent them from switching. What do most people do with their phones? Listen to music, have a messenger, maybe check emails, browsing - that’s it. And you can do that on any other phone. The amount of people that are apple power users that use applications that only exist in the apple ecosystem is abysmal and largely irrelevant in this discussion.
Same goes for the acquiring root access on an android phone. People are not born with knowledge.
True. Neither was I. But in 2025, we have the internet and you can read up on almost anything imagineable. If I wanted to learn about astrophysics, I could find plenty of videos or resources about it. If I want to learn about japanese history during the sengoku period, there are a lot of resources about that. And if I want to learn how to unlock the bootloader of a phone and install a custom rom, not surprisingly, there are resources for that.
This “People are not born with knowledge” argument is so stupid - nobody is born with it, the problem is just that most people are too lazy to learn about their possibilites to break free from oppressing corporate conglomerates. And THAT’S something I have an issue with.
Graphene works on the OnePlus, I’m not a developer so I haven’t tried anything in changing the Os. And pixels problem is with the obsession with Gemini AI and the exonys chip they are using that drains the battery
It’s not officially tested anymore tho - they’ve recently updated their supported devices section. Stuff like the fairphone, which was supported once, also are no longer in the list.
I completely agree with you. So many phones are business tools. Forcing your employer to use the App Store is good. Side loading fly by night bullshit is a risk and lack of oversight the world just doesn’t need. If you want that stuff get an android.
Not the biggest fan of this tbh. People who want open standards should just not buy iOS devices. It’s not that hard.
Companies that do anti-consumer practices shouldn’t think it’s the norm. The more we fuck Apple, the less other companies think that it’s OK to fuck consumers.
Yes, and they would know if people would start voting with their wallets.
Voting with the wallet is mostly bullshit, it’s a myth corpos are telling people so we regulate them less. They have so much power to inject themselves into human’s lives, make themselves part of your existence. You can for example try to walletvote Microsoft out of your life whatever the fuck you want, while you were trying it, they bought a politician or twelve, and now they’re part of your government, your education system, your military, and your finance sector.
While democracy still exists, the only way to fight corpos is the governmental power or regulations.
Exactly this! Capitalism without regulation leads to dictatorship of few cooperations that have the power to let you starve, if you not comply.
How do people not see that?!
Disagree completely. It’s the most effective tool we have to control corpos that does not rely on another entity.
So, you yourself say they buy politicians, but in the same sentence, you want the people they are buying to fight their power with regulations?
Do you see where you went wrong here?
How do you leave when your friends, family and coworkers are all on iMessage and refuse to use anything cross platform? This literally affects people’s professional relationships and close personal connections.
No my friend, Apple has perfected lock-in and turned it into an art. Just because it doesn’t affect you doesn’t mean it’s not an issue.
You can see how much of an impact this has - in my (rich European) country only 30% use apple devices and everyone uses WhatsApp for communication (also not good but far better than imessage, and there’s a slow shift towards signal happening)
“Hey, since I don’t want to use apple devices anymore because the company sucks, I’ve decided to ditch it, therefore, I will not longer have access to iMessage. If you need to contact me, you can use XYZ (insert alternative here) or just call me/send a SMS.”
That’s what I did when ditching whatsapp. Is it easy? No, ofc not. Ditching something for moral reasons is never easy. Do you think it was easy for me to ditch microsoft for linux when I started out? Hell no. But it gets other people to think about it. Some will laugh about it and say: “haha my funny nephew who wants to save the world himself (insert laugh emoji here)” while other will be genuinely interested in why you made this decision and might follow it. That’s how you get people to think by the way.
Pretending like you need a specific messenger like iMessage for communication is dishonest at best and straightup stupid and manipulative at worst.
that only works when a majority of them relies on you. That’s rarely the situation in reality
thinking like this is ignorant at best and intentionally manipulative at worst
Imagine friends and family only want to stay in touch because they “rely” on you. Bro that’s outright sad.
That’s the whole point, when you do useless shit like buying from one corpo instead of another, they only need to buy couple of politicians to succeed. The only way for you to combat it is to elect politicians they can’t buy and apply political pressure to the rest of them, so they can’t buy them all. If instead of that you play their game and try to outbuy a corpo that owns half of your country already, not only you will lose every time, you are actually what doing exactly they want you to do.
“No ethical consumption under capitalism” is about this, not anything else.
This is such a lazy argument, it doesn’t add any kind of value and it shows you don’t care about how other people are treated. Please stop doing this.
True, I do not care about how apple users are treated. They have - voluntarily - decided to buy a device that is known to be anti-consumer.
If we talk about restricting stuff like rent, food prices etc, so essentials, I’m on board. But Apple? Nah. Nobody forces you to shell out that much money for a smartphone.
The problem is they have critical mass so developers are forced to target iPhone. Its a natural monopoly.
The US won’t care as well since they benefit.
Dunno about that critical mass, iOS only has 1/3 of the market in europe while android has the remaining 2/3.
Many Apple users bought their devices before they were aware of Apple’s user look in tactics, let alone how they could be problematic. Most people are not into tech, so they wouldn’t know. Data on tech illiteracy.
I knew about Apple’s tactics and still went all in.
For me at the time it was a choice between sticking with Android (my first smartphone was the OG Moto Droid), trying to de-Google the Android phone I had at the time, or switching to Apple.
Android hardware may be better now than it ever has been, but that wasn’t always the case. Samsung especially pissed me off when they had an Android phone out that after an update to Android the phone would randomly go into Airplane mode without indicating it. They refused to release a fix. That was the last straw for me after trying to use a ton of different ROMS on the phone to get around the issue. Also, back then if you didn’t have Google Play installed that meant you missed out on a lot of apps or had to use Amazon’s App Store.
I got fed up with having to constantly fix things after ROM updates and didn’t have the time due to working so many hours at my job. I didn’t want to stick with Google because I saw where it was headed. I switched to Apple and never looked back. Part of that switch was also influenced because I wanted to get out of the Microsoft Windows ecosystem and gaming on Linux wasn’t great back then so I had to dual boot. Gaming on Mac’s weren’t that great either, but at least I had the “feeling” that things were more private with Apple than Google and MS.
I’m so tied into the Apple ecosystem right now that I’m just not sure I want to go back to hacking Android phones and al that even if things are 100% better than they were a decade ago. I “trust” that Apple handles my privacy concerns better than an ad-supported Google and Windows. I’m going to recommend Apple to non tech-savvy friends and family 100% of the time. Until there’s a phone OS competitor that is both easy to use and on decent hardware out of the box, it’s just a hassle.
That said, I’m thinking about looking at picking up a cheap pre-paid Android phone and checking out the ROM scene again because of the happenings in the US the last few months. I don’t know if I can trust Apple to not cave to the government and destroy the only good thing it had going for the ecosystem for me.
You say that until Google realises that there is no other viable alternative and so they can do the same thing since it’s not like there is another option.
I know you ca try and install other OSes, but that isn’t an option for many, as many manufacturers make acquiring root access impossible.
You answer is basically a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who bought an iphone before they knew about the things Apple did to keep users looked in. Same goes for the acquiring root access on an android phone.
People are not born with knowledge.
Not entirely. I’m fairly sure that, if google decides to lock down pixel devices, the graphene team would evaluate other devices that are more open. The reason they recommend pixels is because they are open, not because they are big google fans. Graphene DOES run on other devices aswell, it’s just not officially tested or supported. And there are other devices with unlockable bootloaders, most noteably older oneplus devices and fairphones.
No, my answer is a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who voluntarily decides to stick with apple devices despite knowing of their practices. Let’s be honest for just one second: Barely any consumer is so tied into an operating system that it would prevent them from switching. What do most people do with their phones? Listen to music, have a messenger, maybe check emails, browsing - that’s it. And you can do that on any other phone. The amount of people that are apple power users that use applications that only exist in the apple ecosystem is abysmal and largely irrelevant in this discussion.
True. Neither was I. But in 2025, we have the internet and you can read up on almost anything imagineable. If I wanted to learn about astrophysics, I could find plenty of videos or resources about it. If I want to learn about japanese history during the sengoku period, there are a lot of resources about that. And if I want to learn how to unlock the bootloader of a phone and install a custom rom, not surprisingly, there are resources for that.
This “People are not born with knowledge” argument is so stupid - nobody is born with it, the problem is just that most people are too lazy to learn about their possibilites to break free from oppressing corporate conglomerates. And THAT’S something I have an issue with.
Graphene works on the OnePlus, I’m not a developer so I haven’t tried anything in changing the Os. And pixels problem is with the obsession with Gemini AI and the exonys chip they are using that drains the battery
It’s not officially tested anymore tho - they’ve recently updated their supported devices section. Stuff like the fairphone, which was supported once, also are no longer in the list.
I completely agree with you. So many phones are business tools. Forcing your employer to use the App Store is good. Side loading fly by night bullshit is a risk and lack of oversight the world just doesn’t need. If you want that stuff get an android.