The indoctrination of windows is extreme. Windows is just as hard as linux, harder even with all the layers of obscurity.

And yet… linux is hard, and users decry RTFM as “not growing the userbase”

  • Cassa@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
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    3 days ago

    Aaaand why is that? It’s hard to read because…?

    We need individuals like you to help it out. It’s like wikipedia

    • rumba@lemmy.zip
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      3 days ago

      It’s hard to read because people lack background knowledge. Man pages were horrible for my first 15 years or so.

      Once you have the skills that you hardly need to read them they’re fine.

      That’s why everyone wants to look it up on stack exchange, they want the answer, not an unending series of lessons

      • something_random_tho@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Man pages are still not great on Linux. Very few examples with common use-cases and explanations. I shouldn’t need to visit the Arch wiki.

        OpenBSD man pages are a delight in comparison, and really all you need to learn how to manage the system.

    • JollyG@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      They are hard to read because they are written to explain concepts to people who already understand them. Handy if you just need them for reference. Useless if you are trying to learn. Which is why RTFM is often bad advice

      • Elvith Ma'for@feddit.org
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        3 days ago

        I’m currently trying to migrate my stack on my VPS from docker to podman. Bonus points if I get it running rootless.

        Somehow, podman compose just wouldn’t work with my existing docker compose file. I quickly found out that podman has many options, but quadlets are preferred. It took me a while to understand what they even are and their concept. I did get the idea and the concept from the docs, but everything else was demonstrating how to set up a very simple one (think a hello world container). Or I found some blog posts with ready made complex examples for some random stacks that were way over my head. But a simple tutorial on how to map the fields/parts of a docker compose to a .container, .network or .volume file for my stack consisting of several containers in a few networks with a reverse proxy in front of it? Nope.

        I’m the end I found podlet and used that to convert a docker-compose. While the result wasn’t completely working (e.g. a problem with some environment vars that got passed and switched in a few “layers” that podlet understandably messed up), it was enough to understand all of it with the docs and complete the quadlet. Now I just need to experiment with the rootless part.

        Currently, my first and foremost pet peeve is, that different distros use different approaches and utilities, but many blog posts or guides don’t tell you what distro they’re for. If you google the problem and find the fourth guide on how to solve it and realize halfway through, that it’s again e.g. for Debian based systems, while you’re running on SUSE or RedHat or Arch or… can be very frustrating.

        • someacnt@sh.itjust.works
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          3 days ago

          Is there no tutorial for mapping docker compose into .container, .network, .volume file at all? That’s unbelievable, one would expect there surely is one.

          • Elvith Ma'for@feddit.org
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            3 days ago

            Maybe I didn’t search right, but since I found podlet first, while looking for a tutorial, I was lazy and gave it a try. It’s result was enough to get me there. Maybe, had I completely read the podlet docs and checked all optional arguments, o could have gotten a perfect result. But that way, I learned better about quadlets.

    • RushLana@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      3 days ago

      It’s hard to read because it’s a manual made for technical users.

      On Linux most of the software is made by freelance developers who often forget that all users are not technical and even if they are they don’t want to be forced to interact with technical stuff. For the same reason I don’t want to daily-drive gentoo, sometimes I don’t want to read the manual.

      I happen to be a contributor on multiple FOSS project and most didn’t have a docs directory in their repo or website, let alone an user guide. That’s fine for a CLI program to rely on wiki/manuals but graphical apps should have a user guide on their website. Working on documentation is a thankless job in FOSS spaces.