The problem is the Democrats aren’t a real leftist party. I’m done waiting for the Democrats to finally disobey their oligarch masters and cater to their voters.
More than that they’re hodgepodge party. They’re combination of liberals and leftist. This was okay for the most part when the little liberals, the petite bourgeoisie, was in control of the party. Because their interest usually align mostly with the left, if not totally. But starting in the late seventies and the eighties the neoliberals took over, the big liberals, the the grand bourgeoisie. So now the party is run by people whose economic and social interests are directly and violently opposed to leftists. So the party’s inherently self-destructive.
Until we jettison those neoliberals, we have no chance. That’s why so many people say it’s time for a new party. Leave them to their old decrepit party and move in Mass to something new.
Republican voters (especially the radicals) throw a fit and stay home or vote third party whenever they don’t get their way. Because they’ve done this, the Republican party has learned to fall in line behind what they want, and so they vote for it. Even so, the Libertarian party regularly gets triple the votes of the Greens and the last major third party candidate drew votes primarily from the right. The right is constantly whining about “RINOs,” and if you go into most right-wing circles and try the shit liberals do with the left, “Sure you might not agree with their stance on abortion, sure they’re going to regulate your guns, but if you don’t fall in line, you’re not a ‘real’ right-winger,” you would be bullied and laughed at.
Liberals think it’s the opposite because they’re obsessed with making sure every single person falls in line without a single condition. Absolutely no respect for anyone’s moral convictions (in contrast to the right). So anyone who ever tries to hold the democrats to a standard is the most important thing ever, whereas on the right it’s just normalized and accepted because it’s so common.
There is no data whatsoever that supports your narrative, and it also doesn’t make any sense. There are so many more “my way or the highway” types on the right, this is the culture that produces soverign citizens who are the ultimate expression of “refusing to compromise your beliefs even when it’s completely unreasonable and out of line with reality,” and libertarians and such are just a lighter version of that.
Yes, I’m sure I have it right. Your “conventional wisdom” is complete nonsense with no basis in reality.
As I explained, the reason that “conventional wisdom” exists is because democrats make a much bigger deal of it on the rare occasions that the left makes any demands whatsoever, whereas on the right, making demands and standing on principle is accepted and normalized.
You can’t provide a single shred of evidence to support this “conventional wisdom” because it’s not true, it has no basis in reality, it’s just rhetoric that liberals like to throw around because they’re so obsessed with making sure everyone falls in line unconditionally.
I know about dozens of Democrats who voted third party or abstained this last election because they didn’t like the handling of Israel/Gaza or Kamala or something and that lines up with elections past.
Edit: not wanting it to be the case doesnt make it false.
Neither are a bunch of thinkpiecies blithely reciting the conventional wisdom in their headlines (which you didn’t read past). You literally just googled “republicans fall in line” and picked the three results at random.
Literally none of the articles you linked support your position. All three are talking about republican politicians falling in line behind Trump - a candidate who was selected by the base against the wishes of the establishment of the party. Yes, the establishment politicians do fall in line behind the voters, this is exactly what I’m arguing, thank you for providing support for my position. What you’re trying to argue is the exact opposite, that the voters fall in line behind whatever the party wants.
Democrat voters throw a fit and stay home or vote third party whenever they don’t get their way…
If only. Green Party consistently gets votes in the low single digits. Jill Stein got one half of one percent in 2024. That’s beyond embarrassing, and I say that as a Green. Other leftist parties get even less.
I wish somebody had thrown a fit over Harris. It might’ve done some good. The few people who did try to hold her feet to the fire over Gaza were either mocked or ignored. As it was, none of that legitimate criticism got through, so the campaign just crashed and burned.
“the Republicans vote in every election” said the foaming Democrat as the Gestapo took them away to the camps.
your country is literally going through a coup and all you can think about is this fetishistic image of saving your country through electoral reform. I’d be laughing if I wasn’t so disturbed.
I was at a local protest yesterday. There were probably a few thousand of us in total. As we were marched around, led by police officers who monitored and managed our progress the whole time, I just kept thinking “This many people working together could probably actually do something that gets national attention.” We have a Trump Tower in my city that the protest went by, and everyone just ineffectually flipped it off or yelled some dumb shit like “Fuck Donald Trump.” I bet if we’d all charged the lobby at once, it’d have broken through to national news, but instead we kept an orderly and maintained peace as we shouted “No Justice, No Peace.” It won’t surprise you to learn corporate news didn’t bother to report on it, since nothing really happened.
I’m getting out of this place, Americans have no goddamn chance. They don’t know how to protest, they don’t know how to scare their oligarchs anymore. It’s no wonder the oligarchs are laughing at us, I’m laughing too.
self-flagellation doesn’t help anyone either. to us looking from outside the west it makes you look silly.
nobody is born knowing how to protest. the countries that do it more commonly do it because they put time aside to organize in their local communities.
I’m not sure protesting is worth that much energy anyways. the partisans didn’t eliminate Nazis by protesting, they acknowledged that the time for that was long gone.
the impactful shit can’t be legally talked about in public. we need more of that.
Why do you keep bringing up Putin? I’m not voting for Putin. I don’t care what the GOP thinks about the Green Party, either. Why do you find these arguments compelling?
Literally the first thing you mentioned was Putin. And then you get on me for explaining myself.
And if you don’t care what the GOP thinks of the Greens means that you have absolutely no idea how elections actually work in the US. I’ll give you a link on ‘splitting the vote’ so you can understand.
The Window keeps moving for one simple reason.
The GOPs vote in every election. They may hate the candidate but if they’ve gotten the Party’s endorsement they’ll vote.
The Left keeps waiting for the perfect candidate to come along…
The problem is the Democrats aren’t a real leftist party. I’m done waiting for the Democrats to finally disobey their oligarch masters and cater to their voters.
More than that they’re hodgepodge party. They’re combination of liberals and leftist. This was okay for the most part when the little liberals, the petite bourgeoisie, was in control of the party. Because their interest usually align mostly with the left, if not totally. But starting in the late seventies and the eighties the neoliberals took over, the big liberals, the the grand bourgeoisie. So now the party is run by people whose economic and social interests are directly and violently opposed to leftists. So the party’s inherently self-destructive.
Until we jettison those neoliberals, we have no chance. That’s why so many people say it’s time for a new party. Leave them to their old decrepit party and move in Mass to something new.
They are physically unable to jettison those people because they’re responsible for the majority of the funding.
Sounds like your plan is to sit and wait while Trump runs amok. What am I missing?
That’s been the Democrats plan too
Republican voters (especially the radicals) throw a fit and stay home or vote third party whenever they don’t get their way. Because they’ve done this, the Republican party has learned to fall in line behind what they want, and so they vote for it. Even so, the Libertarian party regularly gets triple the votes of the Greens and the last major third party candidate drew votes primarily from the right. The right is constantly whining about “RINOs,” and if you go into most right-wing circles and try the shit liberals do with the left, “Sure you might not agree with their stance on abortion, sure they’re going to regulate your guns, but if you don’t fall in line, you’re not a ‘real’ right-winger,” you would be bullied and laughed at.
Liberals think it’s the opposite because they’re obsessed with making sure every single person falls in line without a single condition. Absolutely no respect for anyone’s moral convictions (in contrast to the right). So anyone who ever tries to hold the democrats to a standard is the most important thing ever, whereas on the right it’s just normalized and accepted because it’s so common.
There is no data whatsoever that supports your narrative, and it also doesn’t make any sense. There are so many more “my way or the highway” types on the right, this is the culture that produces soverign citizens who are the ultimate expression of “refusing to compromise your beliefs even when it’s completely unreasonable and out of line with reality,” and libertarians and such are just a lighter version of that.
Democrat voters throw a fit and stay home or vote third party whenever they don’t get their way…
Are you sure you got that right? Republicans fall in line to vote no matter who. Dems want their personal issue addressed before they’ll vote.
Yes, I’m sure I have it right. Your “conventional wisdom” is complete nonsense with no basis in reality.
As I explained, the reason that “conventional wisdom” exists is because democrats make a much bigger deal of it on the rare occasions that the left makes any demands whatsoever, whereas on the right, making demands and standing on principle is accepted and normalized.
You can’t provide a single shred of evidence to support this “conventional wisdom” because it’s not true, it has no basis in reality, it’s just rhetoric that liberals like to throw around because they’re so obsessed with making sure everyone falls in line unconditionally.
I know about dozens of Democrats who voted third party or abstained this last election because they didn’t like the handling of Israel/Gaza or Kamala or something and that lines up with elections past.
Edit: not wanting it to be the case doesnt make it false.
I really don’t think you know what you’re talking about.
I really think that I’m the only one whose presented a shred of evidence to support their position.
Your opinion is not evidence.
Republicans fall in line:
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/11/california-gop-trump-holdouts-00146233
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/republicans-fall-line-trump-nominees-politics-desk-rcna190704
https://www.sungazette.com/opinion/other-commentaries/2024/07/the-party-of-falling-in-line/
You have offered nothing.
Neither are a bunch of thinkpiecies blithely reciting the conventional wisdom in their headlines (which you didn’t read past). You literally just googled “republicans fall in line” and picked the three results at random.
Literally none of the articles you linked support your position. All three are talking about republican politicians falling in line behind Trump - a candidate who was selected by the base against the wishes of the establishment of the party. Yes, the establishment politicians do fall in line behind the voters, this is exactly what I’m arguing, thank you for providing support for my position. What you’re trying to argue is the exact opposite, that the voters fall in line behind whatever the party wants.
Wow, what a compelling argument.
If only. Green Party consistently gets votes in the low single digits. Jill Stein got one half of one percent in 2024. That’s beyond embarrassing, and I say that as a Green. Other leftist parties get even less.
I wish somebody had thrown a fit over Harris. It might’ve done some good. The few people who did try to hold her feet to the fire over Gaza were either mocked or ignored. As it was, none of that legitimate criticism got through, so the campaign just crashed and burned.
“the Republicans vote in every election” said the foaming Democrat as the Gestapo took them away to the camps.
your country is literally going through a coup and all you can think about is this fetishistic image of saving your country through electoral reform. I’d be laughing if I wasn’t so disturbed.
I was at a local protest yesterday. There were probably a few thousand of us in total. As we were marched around, led by police officers who monitored and managed our progress the whole time, I just kept thinking “This many people working together could probably actually do something that gets national attention.” We have a Trump Tower in my city that the protest went by, and everyone just ineffectually flipped it off or yelled some dumb shit like “Fuck Donald Trump.” I bet if we’d all charged the lobby at once, it’d have broken through to national news, but instead we kept an orderly and maintained peace as we shouted “No Justice, No Peace.” It won’t surprise you to learn corporate news didn’t bother to report on it, since nothing really happened.
I’m getting out of this place, Americans have no goddamn chance. They don’t know how to protest, they don’t know how to scare their oligarchs anymore. It’s no wonder the oligarchs are laughing at us, I’m laughing too.
self-flagellation doesn’t help anyone either. to us looking from outside the west it makes you look silly.
nobody is born knowing how to protest. the countries that do it more commonly do it because they put time aside to organize in their local communities.
I’m not sure protesting is worth that much energy anyways. the partisans didn’t eliminate Nazis by protesting, they acknowledged that the time for that was long gone.
the impactful shit can’t be legally talked about in public. we need more of that.
I’m always open to learning.
Why don’t you explain in detail how you personally mustered a large swath of the population to follow you.
I’m not a democrat so I don’t have a making people follow me kink. i prefer allies that can think for themselves
Ratchet theory: the GOP keeps pushing us to the right; the Democrats prevent movement to the left.
The left being so obedient to the Democratic Party is part of the problem. If more of them voted Green, some change could actually happen.
Jill Stein doesn’t think Putin is so bad.
https://www.newsweek.com/jill-stein-vladimir-putin-war-criminal-1954965
Oh, no! She didn’t denounce Putin fast enough! I guess I have to vote for genocide, then…
Let me guess: you’re one of those people who squawks about “purity tests”, too, huh? And the irony is completely lost on you.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/489505-montana-gop-spent-100k-to-get-green-party-on-the-ballot-report/
The GOP has been using the Green Party to split the Left vote for years.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/nerve-agents-poison-and-window-falls-a-list-of-putins-critics-that-have-been-attacked-or-killed/4623578/
Putin has been linked to political assassinations going back years.
If you need more evidence, I’ll send you some more links.
how could that be effective, if the green party didn’t push leftist views?
I’ll relink the article on vote splitting.
It’s amazing to me to talk to people who claim to be political and yet seem to have never actually considered how elections actually work.
https://electionscience.org/education/vote-splitting
this is just spam.
the answer is the green party does push leftist views.
I did a quick check. there’s not one Green Party member of Congress as of 2024.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Green_politicians_who_have_held_office_in_the_United_States
I never said that the Party didn’t have Leftist views; I said that they are taking Left votes from the Dems and helping the GOP win.
Why do you keep bringing up Putin? I’m not voting for Putin. I don’t care what the GOP thinks about the Green Party, either. Why do you find these arguments compelling?
Literally the first thing you mentioned was Putin. And then you get on me for explaining myself.
And if you don’t care what the GOP thinks of the Greens means that you have absolutely no idea how elections actually work in the US. I’ll give you a link on ‘splitting the vote’ so you can understand.
https://electionscience.org/education/vote-splitting
The GOP base knows exactly how to move the Overton window: vote in every election and win.
more like acting like its not an issue, or someone else will come and fix, checks and balances, basically fall in the same trap as republicans,