Military, Militia, whatever the word it is, any society need a force to defend against external threats. I’m not sure how co-ordiantion would work while not being authoritarian and thus inadvetently create a state.

    • vvilld@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      ·
      2 days ago

      It was called the Revolutionary Insurgent Army of Ukraine led by Nestor Makhno as part of the Makhnovschina movement.

      There was also the anarchist CNT-FAI which had an army of decentralized militias, collectively organized by Buenaventura Durruti during the Spanish Civil war of the 1930s.

      During the Russian Revolution and early parts of the Russian Civil War, there were also a lot of anarchist militias and military units, most notably the Kronstadt sailors. The various groups never coalesced as a single army, and, therefore, were easily crushed by the Bolsheviks.

      There was also the Korean People’s Association in Manchuria, which was an anarchist society of more than 2 million people in the late 20s/early 30s. They never had a whole army, but they did organize militias along anarchist principles.

      The Zapatista movement in Chiapas, Mexico, founded in 1994 and still active today, is organized along decentralized principles and is closely associated with anarchism.

      More recently, the YPJ and PKK operating in the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria and the militias fighting the ongoing revolution in Myanmar are not entirely anarchist, but have strong principles of direct democracy at their core.

      In all instances, the overall organization of the militaries were not entirely dissimilar to a traditional military. There were enlisted soldiers led by officers who gave orders that were expected to be followed. There was a higher level command structure which organized the army to distribute resources and coordinate strategy and tactics. The big difference, however, was that the leaders (officers) tended to all be elected democratically by the people they led and could be replaced/voted out democratically whenever the people who they led decided they needed to go…

      There’s a common myth that anarchists are opposed to organization. Quite the opposite is true, in fact. Anarchists are all about organization. The thing we oppose is hierarchical power structures. Systems that place someone, anyone, above anyone else and say, “you must do what your superior tells you on threat of punishment” are inherently evil. But free associations are not. Rather than thinking of an officer in an anarchist militia/army as a leader whose commands must be followed or you’ll face steep punishment, think of them as a central coordinator. Their directives aren’t followed because you’ll be court marshalled or otherwise punished if you don’t obey. They’re followed because people at every level are included in the process and allowed to have their voices heard. Everyone has a degree of ownership and influence over the process. People follow directives because they understand where they’re coming from and why the decisions were made. Yet, if at any time someone decides they no longer want to take part, they have the option to just leave.

      • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 days ago

        I think that the YPJ calls themselves something like democratic syndicalists? It’s close enough to anarchism that it’s the easiest way for most people to understand it. The way that they’re organizing their communities is pretty special, and I hope that they’re able to keep their regions autonomous and maintain their ideals.

    • vvilld@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      2 days ago

      This is a common myth that isn’t really backed up by the historical or archeological record. Most pirate crews were not proto-anarchists looking to live a life of absolute liberty. They were more comparable to modern street gangs. The captains tended to be a strongman type leader who imposed their will over the crew through fear and coercion. The pirates themselves tended to be outcasts from society who couldn’t turn to authorities to try to escape their situation for a variety of reasons, mostly because they were criminals who knew they’d be imprisoned or killed if they went to authorities.

      Probably the only place where anything close to what you describe ever really existed was small communities in Madagascar which became the inspiration for the probably mythical Libertatia. The communities that definitely did exist weren’t some ideological project to try to craft a society absent hierarchical power structures. They were just small, impoverished communities of families where the patriarchs (the pirates) spent most of their time away (at sea doing pirating) so the communities largely ran themselves without a power structure. This isn’t because they had an ideological opposition to them, but because the authority was the pirate leader who spent 3/4 of their time away (and, therefore, couldn’t do the job of being in charge) and when they were home they spent their time partying.

      • Ænima@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 days ago

        You mock, but like most seafarers, they had a strict code of conduct that was pretty much the law of the land sea.

  • SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    18
    ·
    edit-2
    3 days ago

    Structure doesn’t mean authoritarian by default but I see what you mean. Maybe like a reserve/volunteer fire department deal?

    You have a normal life but you have some equipment you keep at home or in a car. Rifle, pistol, armor, drones, medical, packs etc, but the heavy equipment is in a dedicated area. Most equipment is self bought but with standardized calibers, mags etc for simplified logistics. Routine training and maintenance is done weekly, larger more objective focused training every quarter or so.

    The key would be having armed people outside of that group, not only to boost defensive capability of the community in an emergency but to provide a deterrent to misuse of the defense force for anything but countering external threats. If you don’t have that, in the words of a Clint Eastwood movie, “there are two types of people, those with loaded guns and those who dig”

    • PizzaAlternative@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      3 days ago

      I believe you’re correct. It would be something more akin to what a militia was in the US before those were largely yoked under a central authority. A stateless society is often misunderstood (in my opinion) as being devoid of organized structure or complex systems. Those things can evolve and form what would probably be a decently cohesive military; I would imagine though that it’s ethos would be largely based upon defensive and protective capabilities.

      Anarchism or parallel strains of libertarian socialism, recognize that the state exists to be the arbiter and means of violence, both internally and externally. It exerts control by imposing boundaries and rules under the implicit threat of violence dictated from the top.

      If a forces goal is to protect the individual safety and well being of the population it serves in a purely defensive capacity, then that mandate should be the superseding premise to any direction it may be given by a centralized command. In theory this is how the US military is supposed to work, but a strict hierarchy and top down command largely nullifies that attribute.

      I would suppose that the military of an anarchist society would therefore only act at the behest or the consensus of, the majority of the people that it serves. Defense would be a trained volunteer system, spread equally as possible across a defined area, with planning trained on assembling in that area and protecting it specifically. The duty being first and foremost to the community they are tasked with and thereby being much more in line with the flat, decentralized heterarchy of a “stateless” society.

      If needed that force would be trained to group and assemble with neighboring units, up to the larger battle groups and formations that we see today. Materially it could look extremely similar to how the modern military looks today. The main difference being the training emphasis and organizational chains of command. I think the Swiss may be a good example of what this could look like. Compulsory service for the able bodied to train and then release to civilian reserve status. They are famously known to also only be a defensive force as well and not in some fake ass name only way.

  • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    13
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    2 days ago

    If it is possible for a stateless society to exist long term then there is likely no longer a need for militaries.

  • StarlightDust@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    2 days ago

    I actually imagine that there would be a lot of similarities to the structure of already existing anarchist organizing, particularly street antifascism.

    Usually people will meet ahead of an action and discuss likely events and how to respond. If things happen that weren’t predicted, it relies on the initiative of people on the ground.

    Usually people with experience will end up making snap decisions, though people will occasionally veto them. If there is an opportunity, the people who disagree will huddle and decide on a new course of action. If not, someone might just call it out a new course of action, which people will also sometimes veto.

    I’m personally quite a fan of simple instructions that you can chant because it also boosts morale and demonstrates unity to the opposition.

    At a recent example that I think was particularly effective, a group of spotters* were following a fascist march, one person shouted, “Come on guys. We can’t let them go unopposed.”

    A second person indicated that they agreed by proposing a strategy, gesturing to link arms, saying, “Link up.”

    A third person adapted that into a chant of, “Link your arms! Stand your ground!”

    Spotters are a scout-like role who usually have the responsibility of keeping an eye on the opposition and relaying that information back to the action itself. In this case, the spotters realized that remaining as spotters was less useful and adapted accordingly, since the main counter was trapped elsewhere.

    Interestingly, as the police decision makers were with the main counter, the police who were with the spotters were unable to act because their structure depends on a hierarchy whereas the adaptability of anarchist organizing doesn’t.

  • Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    3 days ago

    You’d have armed citizens defending their homes. Not a tactical powerhouse, but do not underestimate their feracity!