Like, why is it so widespread, what causes it, what solutions are available, etc. I don’t really know how to ask this question so I hope I’m making sense

  • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    As is echoed a lot in this entire post of replies: therapy isn’t really mentioned here. And that might be a key when it comes to male mental and emotional health.

    • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      Explain to me in actual words what a therapist is going to accomplish.

      “Doctor doctor you’ve got to do something! Third spaces don’t exist, there’s no loitering signs everywhere you’ll be arrested for standing around talking, everyone my age had kids and their lives fell off, bars charge $9.50 for an ounce of bourbon and expect a tip and they play Nickelback loud enough to be heard from the moon so I’ve just been sitting at home alone drinking diet soda and playing Subnautica over and over again and while I utterly love this game it’s getting a little stale and Below Zero isn’t…good at all? So I guess I’m a little bored.”

      “…Here’s a prescription for an SSRI, that’ll be $900.”

      • optissima@lemmy.ml
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        3 months ago

        Explain to me in actual words what a therapist is going to accomplish.

        Lots of men aren’t taught emotional intelligence and therapy is helpful for better identifying your emotions so your choices can actually have impactbon them.

          • optissima@lemmy.ml
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            3 months ago

            I’m very aware of the strawman, you specifically asked for an answer. Those are real issues, but you asked how a therapist could help.

            • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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              3 months ago

              I was a pilot one or two careers ago, so I’m going to put it this way:

              Feelings are liabilities, not assets. You launch an Airbus out of Newark and a few hundred feet up you hit more geese than your engines can take leaving you out of thrust, low on altitude and low on options, the emotional decision is to curl up on the floor and snot cry because you’re now in more danger than nature designed you to handle.

              On occasion you’ll find cases where pilots do lock up like that. The kindest thing anyone will ever say about those pilots is “The primary cause of the accident was pilot error.”

              Now listen to how they talk about Captain Sully. “He’s so calm. There’s no emotion in his voice, he just started working the problem.” Stopping to identify exactly which crayola crayon color exactly matched his emotional state in that moment wasn’t going to lengthen any lives; starting the APU and configuring the airplane for best glide did though. You stay in your feelings, you start doing stupid irrational things, you’re gonna die for sure. You push all of that down to your ass where it can be safely clenched out of the way and you THINK.

              Having feelings is how you fuck up when your decisions matter the most. Getting rid of them is the useful skill, not giving each one a Baskin Robbins 31 flavors marketing name.

              • optissima@lemmy.ml
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                3 months ago

                You repress your feelings and wonder why you’re lonely. You don’t realize how much they impact your life until you know how to recognize them, I myself went through that too. It wasn’t until I learned more about my emotions that I truly felt happy, wanted. Repressing feelings doesn’t work, not in a social setting, because you repress all your emotions, even the positive ones.

    • BmeBenji@lemm.ee
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      3 months ago

      I think therapy helps as a remediation, but it’s not preventive nor does it fully solve the problem because ultimately it’s transactional and paying someone to listen is fully different from finding someone who listens to you that you also want to listen to.

      • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        That’s the thing though: if you’re having trouble finding someone who wants to listen to you, the problem might possibly be you. let’s just say it’s not out of the realm of possibility. But if you are happy to sit there refusing therapy with circular logic: you’re your own problem and all this is is you’ve found a way to self sustain that cover and you’ve convinced yourself. Fair enough. That’s your decision,

        therapy is really for those who are ready to admit they are unhappy with how things are(and willing to realize they play a part in their unhappiness) and more open to tearing down those old toxic behaviours to build something more engaging that might do better at relationships .

        If you don’t see yourself in that description, then you’re right. Therapy would do nothing for you.

  • Econgrad@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Men have been taught not to approach women in public unless it’s online in a dating app. Women have always been taught not to approach men.

    So no one is having relationships except for a very small portion of people who are disproportionately physically attractive.

    Pair that with the hypergamy that women are doing where they only chase men out of their league now for the most part and it makes things that used to be normal and taken for granted like getting married and having a family exceptional jewels that are hard to come by.

    • Pazu900@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      This isn’t true. This is what right wing loser podcasters claim to further the idea of women or libruls as the problem, and themselves as the solution. It’s a much deeper problem than that.

      If you actually spend time around women you’ll find that looks are a way lower priority for them than for men. You’ll find that they value things like being understanding, doing interesting things, being trustworthy, and for physical things as long as you’re hygienic and have a semblance of style they really don’t care much even if you’re heavier. And guess what? These are ALL things you can work on to improve yourself.

      Want to have more women like you? Work on yourself first. Women aren’t attracted to men who complain online about “I’m not allowed to go talk to them in public”

      • botterotter@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        At least in my experience, women tend to care about looks just about the exact same amount as men, that is to say some care almost exclusively about looks and some not at all, and everywhere in between, and at about the same rates from what I’ve seen. Anecdotal tho, and the general gist of what you said still applies, I’m just being pedantic lol

  • Ogmios@sh.itjust.works
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    3 months ago

    There’s been a concerted effort over the last several decades to push a men vs women dynamic online, and most men don’t buy into it, so it’s really just been people shitting all over men without consequence. Just look at the other answers here focusing exclusively on how men can be blamed (edit: many better replies have been posted since I made this comment).

    Quite likely pushed excessively by foreign propaganda.

  • dohpaz42@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    For decades it has been ingrained in men that they are to be held to a very specific standard. Men don’t cry, men are strong, men have to take care of everyone else, stop your whining, I’ll give you something to cry about, be the alpha male, that’s “gay”, strength, weakness, and so on.

    My father, and grandfather, both grew up with a code of silence. Feelings weren’t talked about, but relayed through their wives; except anger. That was given directly through corporal punishment (hand or belt).

    I was always “emotional” growing up. I cried “like a baby” over “nothing”. No one ever came to check on me, or console me, during any of my “fits”. In fact, there were times I was ridiculed for it (sometimes by family members).

    When I was 19 my grandmother died. I was really close with her; she was the only one who ever came to my aid and defended me. It tore me up so bad I could barely talk without breaking down. I was told multiple times that I shouldn’t be so upset, and that I was overreacting (by my family). Everything came to a head when all at once my cousins, aunts, uncles, and even brother yelled at me because I was being selfish and unreasonable, and insensitive to my grandfather because “he just lost his wife”.

    Oh, and apologies are for “pussies”.

    Anyway, it’s not really about me. I wanted to paint a picture for you as to why I’m lonely. Do with that what you will.

  • Snowclone@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Part of capitalism is a need for high consumer culture. I grew up in a Latin American culture, and there are American sub cultures that also work similarly, there’s no nuclear family. Of course your relationship with your parents and siblings are very strong and important, but you have no problem living with grandma, or having your extended family live all very close together, my family were all in the same apartment complex in an immigrant neighborhood. I grew up with my cousins, like every day, if we didn’t want to play outside we’d go to different houses to see what everyone was watching on TV, we shuffle around with the different game consoles at different houses, food was entirely communal. After I got married to a typical American partner and started raising our kids together I was very shocked to find out that some food in the house is apparently owned by someone. And eating that food is a serious offense. Anyway, people used to live very close if not in a large family home with extended families. Why was this bad for capitalism? One large house owner by an entire family of 12-22 people securely, in which no one needs to buy their own home. We’re a few cars and carpooling is a simple task, where food is distributed to the hungry without a lot of steps between grocer and table, I was wearing clothes my uncle wore when I was an adult. When everyone dresses in a similar manner and suits and work close lasted generations, a pair of taken care of shoes or boots that just get repaired every few decades, are you starting to see the problem? That NOT good for capitalism. When the concept of the nuclear family took hold there was a huge boom in home conduction, hardware stores, department stores, companies made fortunes off baby boomers, all this individualized products, razors, deodorant, soap, every stage in life requires a new variety of soap, 10 kinds of cereal to pick from, new shoes every 6mo.

    Humans are Apes. Every other ape on the planet lives in large troops that mutually aid eachother and who is boss, and who is contending to take over, who has first pick of food and women, it’s based on what? Being hella aggro? Being bigger, stronger, what? Usually it comes down to who has the best social skills, who ever bonds with the most members of the troop, because when a fight ensures, it’s not about who is smart, cunning, or strong, it’s about how many apes jump in on your side. We are DEEPLY social animals. The nuclear family isolated men the most. Toxic masculinity harms men on a HUGE scale. Quietly, emotionless, provide a secure home, two or more cars, and income to spare to the family you alone protect. It’s pretty lonely. Many men don’t even have friendships, one of the worst aspects of toxic masculinity is that it’s a sign of weakness to be kind, caring, and nurturing. You know. Those aspect of social life that make every other species of ape successful. So where do men locked out of this already broken system go? They look for groups that will accept them, invite them out, bond with them socially. And who’s funding all these far right groups that do this with millions of dollars? Russia. Far right billionaires and millionaires who don’t want these men talking about WHY they are locked out of the system. If you look around you can also notice a lot of small service business aren’t run by white people. You see Hispanic, Asian, east Indian people, who ‘‘are all packed into that house like sardines’’ with a staff of related people doing the work. Consumer culture is a dead end. The Nuclear family is a dead end.

    Eventually we will break down and then who survives. The armed and dangerous? Or a farmer, rancher, producer of products, doer of services, with strong social ties and distributes food, product, service, with simple bartering making sure everyone’s still alive.

  • pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    3 months ago

    There’s a few factors working together to cause it. There’s really two main ones: pressure to have sex and romantic connection, and an inability to be able to make those connections.

    There’s tons and tons of pressure out there about being in a relationship and having sex. In modern day, a good example is Andrew Tate and the like, directly linking your self worth to having sex. Back when I was a male teenager during the days of rage comics and advice animals, it was memes about the friend zone. The core idea is the same, being alone is something to be ashamed and upset about. Being rejected is something that reflects badly upon you as a person. Young men are constantly being bombarded with messaging about how being a man revolves around sex and romance, and lacking these things makes you less of a man. In addition, so much media portrays sex both as this amazing thing on a pedestal and as something that’s not just commonplace but as something that everyone’s expected to be doing.

    So young men are believing that everyone except them are all in relationships and/or fucking all the time, and believing that them not doing those things makes worth less as a human being.

    The other problem is actually making romantic or otherwise meaningful connections. So much more socializing is online these days, and there are a lot fewer women on the internet than men. It’s difficult to make organic connections with single women online, as random social media is by far mostly male and more direct closer friend groups tend to be made of single men and people in relationships (this is very arbitrary and circumstancial, it’s just what I’ve noticed). So, your odds of finding a single and compatible friend of a friend of a friend online aren’t great, and dating apps are complete trash for pretty much anything other than gay hookups. So, there’s not really a way for many young men to find romantic partners. Straight up hookups are easier, especially if your standards aren’t too high, but it’s an area a lot of young men aren’t socially comfortable with because it’s not something they’ve done a lot of, which makes everything much harder.

    In the end, if there wasn’t so much pressure to be dating and having sex, then the difficulty of doing so in the modern day wouldn’t matter so much.

    Personally, I’ve basically only had sex with men, because it’s so much more straightforward and the dating pool isn’t crazy lopsided. Though that’s at an end now too, because I’ve transitioned too much to be appealing to gay men anymore and haven’t transitioned nearly enough to be appealing to straight men or gay women.

    • lordnikon@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      You make very good points also to add women in online spaces have incentives to pretend to be male or be ambiguous and not bring attention that they are women online to reduce the harassment they get. I’m pulling numbers out of the air but I feel 10% the internet that is male are assholes or children that don’t have any social skills yet and the other 90% get lumped in with them because we don’t reach out at all as to not come off as creeps like the other 10%. So you don’t hear about the polite respectful ones.

      My hypothesis for this comes from the fact that most men I meet in real life are polite social people that respect women with about 10% being weird assholes. I also don’t blame women being guarded of all men as that 10% are true nightmare. I mean if there was a 10% chance a strange man you meet out in public was going to be Jason Voorhees. I would mace every man that came up to me as well. That’s how those assholes ruin it for everyone. Well except the grifrers that make it worse that is.

      Also I’m married but we met online before tinder broke dating sites. So take what I say with a grain of salt just from an old man that sees the struggle of young people of all genders go through and I have empathy for them.

      • pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        3 months ago

        Seeing Lemmy’s reaction to the bear made me want to crawl under a rock to be honest, so many people demonstrating that they’re exactly the reason why women don’t feel safe. A lot more than 10% of men on the internet are weird assholes, they just mask it well until they feel insulted. I’ve had a cis woman friend have to change her screen name because she’d occasionally get clocked and harassed, and a trans friend is really split on the progress she’s making with her voice, because now she’s also getting harassed when using voice chat in games.

        Sorry mostly unrelated tangent, it just feels like gender relations have been backsliding

          • Caboose12000@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            it was something like, there was a viral tweet asking if women would rather be alone in the woods with a bear or with a man, and most women said they’d pick the bear, and many many many men were very gross about this in response